With that vision in mind, Rob, now 36, made What Are Records? a success right from the start, achieving profitability in a matter of months and attracting a core group of acts with loyal fans. What Are Records? roster includes Frank Black & the Catholics, David Wilcox, Tim Finn, Stephen Lynch (on the Ha Ha imprint), Lloyd Cole, Sally Taylor, The Ocean Blue, The Innocence Mission, Glenn Tilbrook (former Squeeze frontman), Luce, Maceo Parker, Yazbek and House of Large Sizes.

In the five years prior to What Are Records?, Rob was gaining valuable experience that would help him in his future endeavors. As director of A&R at EMI, he was instrumental in both the musical and marketing success of several major records, including the Red Hot Chili Peppers’ Mother’s Milk and Queensryche’s Operation Mindcrime and Empire. Depending on the album, Rob was involved in everything from marketing and budgeting to mixing, editing, and mastering records.

"Early on I decided that I would learn everything there was to learn," he recalls. "I would learn not just my job, but everybody’s job because I knew someday I was going to start my own label."

The day came in 1991, when Rob was approached by Ted Guggenheim, then manager of The Samples, about starting a label and signing his band. The Samples had certain qualities that made them particularly attractive to Rob, namely that they toured a lot and had a large fan base. They had something else to offer that helped Rob forge a direct relationship with retailers: eliminating the need for outside distribution in many cases.

"The Samples had a record that fans wanted very badly," Rob explains. "So when we called up record stores and said, ‘Have you heard of The Samples?’ retailers said, ‘Yeah, can you get us their first record?’" At the time, What Are Records? actually had a new Samples record to offer, and it was eagerly accepted. In the first two weeks 15,000 copies were sold. That was the beginning of What Are Records?’s success with the distribution of music.

"At What Are Records? we believe that if we create the demand, the supply will take care of itself, so to speak," says Rob. The result is that What Are Records? has averaged a 4 percent return rate in its first 10 years, while most labels average 20 percent or more in returns.

What Are Records? was also successful in marketing directly to retailers - in fact, so successful that it is sometimes hired by major and other independent labels to do retail marketing. Past and present clients include Capitol, RCA, Giant, Arista, EMI, and A&M.

"Major labels have larger marketing budgets, but very little time," says Rob. "In the beginning, we had very little money, but lots of time, so we made time our asset. Our sales staff is in constant touch with retailers. And people started to ask for our help."

Rob had other innovative marketing approaches up his sleeve. He implemented fan-base development and field-staff recruitment right off the bat.

"When I started the company, I made part of The Samples' CD paper packaging a postcard that fans could tear off and send back to join the fan club or order merchandise," he says. "The thousands of fans who responded could learn how to get special releases or, even more exciting for a hard-core fan, get to work promoting the band in their town. The strong network of fans has been a marketing and sales engine unto itself. It has effectively turned our company of 15-20 into an army of thousands."

Special, limited records available only through Internet and mail-order sales, are part of the What Are Records? marketing strategy. These releases, which contain different music and/or packaging than standard releases, become highly sought-after collectors items and keep fans riveted to the What Are Records? website.

Advance tour marketing is another piece of the What Are Records? strategy that helped put the company on the map as a marketing entity. What Are Records? sends staff members to tour stops ahead of its artists to work with promoters, retailers and radio stations to create awareness and anticipation for upcoming shows.

"Unlike most independent labels, we do almost everything ourselves, out of this one building," Rob says, referring to the eyeball shaped structure in Boulder, Colo., where the company has been based since What Are Records? relocated in 1994. That's when What Are Records? was in mid-stride. The Samples' Autopilot reached number one on the Billboard Heat Seekers Chart; the company was overseeing the marketing of H.O.R.D.E., and Rob was managing Lisa Loeb, who's single" Stay (I Missed You)" from the Reality Bites soundtrack hit number one.

With an eye toward the future, Rob has a new approach to working with artists that will put an end to the traditional royalty deal. "Our deals offer unprecedented control and profits to the artists," he says.

You have signed some well know artists in the past few years. Why do you think they found a home at What Are Records?, a smaller label than they're used to?
Since our inception, we have specialized in working with artists who have an existing following. Along the way, as I learned more about my own business and its financial (and legal) boundaries, I figured out how to make the deals more financially rewarding to artists and the contracts shorter/more artist-friendly. We are at a point now that we know of no other label that offers such a rewarding deal.

Since January 2000, when we signed Tim Finn, we have been offering these deals. They allow artists to retain ownership of their recordings, give artists creative freedom, provide full record label service, let the artists make their own career decisions (if they wish), and reward the artists with the lion's share of the label profit.

First industry job
A&R intern at Manhattan - Blue Note Records in New York. You may remember them for Robbie Nevil, Richard Marx, Stanley Jordan, and Bobby McFerrin. We merged with EMI-America in 1988 to become (eventually) EMI-USA.

Career highlight(s)
A&R'ing (what I would call making) and marketing Mother's Milk for the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Operation: Mindcrime and Empire for Queensryche; The quick success of What Are Records? In 1992-1994 which included selling approximately 500,000 albums by the Samples, managing Lisa Loeb while "Stay" went number one, and being part of an unprecedented situation (an artist with no record or publishing deal hitting number one on the top 100); Moving to Colorado and bringing most of our staff with us from the New York area; and working with many artists I respect.

Career disappointment(s)
Not being permitted to sign some great artists at EMI. Some of the acts were (in no particular order, and probably missing a few good ones) They Might Be Giants, Michelle Shocked, R.E.M. (the deal that eventually went to WB), The Innocence Mission and The Ocean Blue (who we now work with), Ede (who became Collective Soul), Lisa Loeb (Liz & Lisa at the time), Fed LeBlanc/Cowboy Mouth, and believe it or not, Winger (the demos were great).

What was your managerial experience like?
I managed Lisa Loeb in 1994. I don't enjoy the hand holding that many artists expect (not always consciously). I enjoy the marketing part, the negotiating part, the interpersonal part, the musical part (remember, I am an A&R guy...), and in some relationships, the musical (Playing/Producing/engineering) part.

Greatest challenge
Running a company of over 10 people! Under 10 seemed more manageable; over 10 and we have to create more formal procedures. We are currently between 16-20 and may exceed 20 this year.

Best business decision
Starting What Are Records?

Worst business decision
Letting lawyers influence any of my important decisions

Best advice you received
I received so much helpful advice from so many generous people, I do not know where to start.

Best advice to offer
Earn your success with hard work and good decisions. Don't expect a good thing to last for too long.

Most memorable industry/tour experience
So many!!! Being on tour with Queensryche (such nice guys / crew) while they were breaking. We were leaving The Palace at Auburn Hills in Michigan to get on the bus and all these kids were behind the barricade screaming as each band member walked outside. When I walked to the bus, someone said "Someone with long hair," (which I had at the time) and everyone screamed like I was a rock star. That was pretty funny.

After almost everyone had left a Samples concert (approximately 1,000 people, sold out and crowded!) in Oakland, Calif., a girl (16 or so) was crying. Her friend told us that the diamond in her ring fell out of its setting during the concert and it was her friend's mom's ring!!! I asked where she was standing. We walked there (up against the stage). One of Sean's monitors was right there. It was one of those that had a 4 or 5" square cut in the side and foam inside. I put my hand inside and felt something. When I took it out, it was the diamond!! That was my only attempt to find it. And the answer is no! I did not take advantage of her appreciation!!!

Industry pet peeve
So many: don't know where to start.

Rob can be reached at 303-440-0666; e-mail: Rob@WhatAreRecords.com

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